[nq:1]What was written was, "...Puerto, [nq:2]Don't kid yourself. There's a, When you

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Mxsmanic:

[nq:1]What was written was, "...Puerto Ricans don't leave after 5 years."[/nq]
So? Nothing in that statement implies that they are required to leave.
[nq:1]Puerto Ricans have no place to leave to. They are home, they are Americans.[/nq]
They can return to Puerto Rico from the mainland. I doubt that most of those who come to the CONUS feel that they are "home," even though they haven't emigrated from their native country.
[nq:1]To write otherwise is to show that you do not, indeed, understand the status of Puerto Ricans in the US.[/nq]
To base arguments on statements that were never made is a fallacy in debate.

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John Dean:

[nq:2]Don't kid yourself. There's a long tradition in the British ... other professions) of sending the kids 'home' to boarding school.[/nq]
[nq:1]The British have been crippling the social and emotional development of their children with boarding schools since time immemorial, it seems. Most nationalities don't make this mistake, however.[/nq]
Most nationalities do, actually. Though it's always a minority at the rich end of the money-train. Indeed, many of them (Saudi, Kuwait etc) actually send their children to Brit boarding schools. Imagine!
[nq:2]Some of our most seriously repressed celebrities have travelled that ... the age of 5, not returning until he was 17.[/nq]
[nq:1]I've always been amazed by the practice. Apparently the British don't love their children, since they are eager to send them far away for as long a period as possible. It explains what people euphemistically call "British reserve"; more like British trauma, I'd say.[/nq]
Y-e-e-s. Should we mention the Bushes sending young George away in his impressionable adolescence to a boarding school in Noo England? I wonder what that did to him?

John Dean
Oxford

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Tony Cooper:

When you bring in "eventually" and "multiple generations", anything is possible. Members of the American Indian tribes usually speak English. That doesn't mean they are assimilated. Some are, and some are most definitely not.
[nq:2]I assume that you don't know that many of these immigrant children do not pick up more than basic English in school.[/nq]
[nq:1]Aren't they being taught in English?[/nq]
The teachers attempt to do so. The question becomes not how they are being taught, but what they are learning. Native English speakers can sit through eight grades of classes and not learn anything. Native Spanish speakers can be even more adept at filtering out that noise the teacher is making.
[nq:2]The schools are required to provide lessons and tests in Spanish.[/nq]
[nq:1]Why? More SIG and PAC activity to create a captive Hispanophone underclass?[/nq]
The "why" is because of the activities of special interest groups that demand this. Since these groups are usually made up of the parents and other members of the Hispanic community, it would be difficult to attribute it to a conspiracy to hold down the Hispanic groups by the Anglo groups. In Florida, it is the Spanish-speaking population that is the most vocal and active in demanding that Hispanic students be taught and tested in Spanish. The non-Hispanic groups think this is shooting yourself in the foot, but all it takes is a few lawsuits filed by the Hispanic community.
[nq:2]A student can complete the basic educational requirements without mastering English or without needing to.[/nq]
[nq:1]Unfortunately, a student has no hope of entering the American mainstream unless he is fluent in English. If he does ... select group of demagogues for his entire lifetime, living in an isolated world cut off from the rest of society.[/nq]
I agree.
[nq:2]They can come out of high school without the ability ... and without the ability to read or write English effectively.[/nq]
[nq:1]See above. The real reasons for this are quite sinister.[/nq]
It might be sinister if the non-Hispanics were behind it, but since the situation is just the reverse it's difficult to brand it as sinister. Stupid, would be a better description.
[nq:2]We also have a high Asiatic (mostly Vietnamese and Cambodian) ... better. This seems to be a result of family encouragement.[/nq]
[nq:1]Are they taught in Vietnamese and Cambodian at school? Can they graduate from high school speaking only these languages?[/nq]
Not that I know of. The Vietnamese and Cambodian parents and community take the opposite position of the Hispanics. They insist that their children learn English.
[nq:1]Are there influential groups that have a strong vested interest in maintaining a captive underclass that speaks only Vietnamese or Cambodian?[/nq]
No. Never heard a whisper about that. Quite the opposite, in fact.
[nq:2]That's the point in an insular community. It doesn't. There ... and no attempt at assimilation. And, no need for assimilation.[/nq]
[nq:1]Those communities will always be isolated minorities. They tend to die out in time as younger generations discover the attractions of mainstream society.[/nq]
I agree.
[nq:1]In the cases to which you refer, these communities are no doubt being artificially maintained and encouraged by people who stand to profit handsomely from their existence and the captive, effectively incommunicado populations they contain.[/nq]
Oh, ***. The artificial maintenance is being promoted and required by the very group that stands to lose the most: the Hispanic community. Try to gain at least a modicum of understanding of the issue before you start making absolute pronouncements.

You have a strong tendency to say "this is the way it is" without having the slightest idea of "this is the way that it is". You'd learn more if you asked questions and kept a slightly open mind before deciding "this is the way that it is".
In Florida, the educational system and the general English-speaking community try everything possible to promote English skills in the Hispanic population. The Hispanic community fights them at every point with lawsuits requiring that Hispanic students be allowed to be taught in Spanish and tested in Spanish. We don't have enough funding for textbooks as it is. Yet, the Hispanic community is demanding that textbooks be made available in Spanish. Otherwise, they say, it's not "fair" to the Spanish speakers.

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Mxsmanic:

[nq:1]In Florida, it is the Spanish-speaking population that is the most vocal and active in demanding that Hispanic students be ... this is shooting yourself in the foot, but all it takes is a few lawsuits filed by the Hispanic community.[/nq]
The non-Hispanic groups are right. Perhaps the Spanish-speaking population is ignorant, or stupid. Why else would it deliberately isolate itself from the mainstream?
Of course, if the "population" is actually a small group of demagogues intent upon controlling other Hispanophones, the possible motives become much clearer and much easier to understand, and much more sinister.
[nq:1]It might be sinister if the non-Hispanics were behind it, but since the situation is just the reverse it's difficult to brand it as sinister.[/nq]
You think that people are free of evil simply because they are Hispanic? You think there are no charlatans, profiteers, crooks, ambitious opportunists, or other dregs in Spanish-speaking populations?
[nq:1]Stupid, would be a better description.[/nq]
It may be stupidity. I'd guess it's stupidity in the followers, and self-interest in the leaders.
[nq:1]Not that I know of. The Vietnamese and Cambodian parents and community take the opposite position of the Hispanics. They insist that their children learn English.[/nq]
A few decades from now, many of these Asians will be rich. The Hispanics will still be cleaning toilets, except for a select few who will grow fat from the hard efforts of their captive servants.
[nq:1]Oh, ***. The artificial maintenance is being promoted and required by the very group that stands to lose the most: the Hispanic community.[/nq]
Compare the most vocal advocates of these policies in that group with those who follow them most closely. You may find that there is very little overlap between the two. How many of the advocates cannot speak English? How many of those who follow Spanish-only or Spanish-first policies personally are successful in the mainstream, or successful in the Hispanic community without profiting from others in that community?
[nq:1]You have a strong tendency to say "this is the way it is" without having the slightest idea of "this ... more if you asked questions and kept a slightly open mind before deciding "this is the way that it is".[/nq]
You'd be more persuasive if you addressed only the topic under discussion and skipped the ad hominem.
[nq:1]The Hispanic community fights them at every point with lawsuits requiring that Hispanic students be allowed to be taught in ... community is demanding that textbooks be made available in Spanish. Otherwise, they say, it's not "fair" to the Spanish speakers.[/nq]
Just out of curiosity, how many of these "Hispanics" are Cuban or of Cuban ancestry?

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Bill Bonde ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '':

[nq:1]MC wrote on 10 Oct 2004:[/nq]
[nq:2]Puerto Rico is plural?[/nq]
[nq:1]Last I looked, it was very plural.[/nq]
You've changed the subject from an error on usenet that occurs almost as often as the typo 'you' for 'your', except "it's" for "its" and "its" for "it's" isn't usually a typo.

"In August Rudyard's listlessness called for another series of major and very unpleasant medical examinations.. He later joked ... 'If this is what Oscar Wilde went to prison for, he ought to have got the Victoria Cross.'", Andrew Lycett, "Rudyard Kipling"

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Bill Bonde ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '':

[nq:2]I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral ... of this nation) and, get this, of all languages, spanish.[/nq]
[nq:1]In California, ballots are usually printed in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean and Tagalog. I would say the right ... or make mistakes outweights the cost to the state of having to provide voting materials in more than one language.[/nq]
They have enough trouble getting it right in one language. If the people who write the pro and con sides of the various initiatives, for example, could actually read and understand the various languages they were translated into, I expect there would be a lot more law suits after each election. This is a good reason to not teach foreign languages to Americans.

"In August Rudyard's listlessness called for another series of major and very unpleasant medical examinations.. He later joked ... 'If this is what Oscar Wilde went to prison for, he ought to have got the Victoria Cross.'", Andrew Lycett, "Rudyard Kipling"

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don groves:

(This followup was posted to alt.english.usage and a copy was sent to the cited author.)

Appears he wasn't so impressionable after all.

dg (domain=ccwebster)

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Bill Bonde ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '':

[nq:2]The U.S. government is fully entitled to define the words that it uses.[/nq]
[nq:1]"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone. 'It means just what I choose it to mean - neither more or less.'"[/nq]
This is true to Humpty Dumpty. And the listeners and readers of the language Humpty Dumpty produces are also free to hold their own views about what the words mean to them. At some point, if sufficient divergence occurs, mutual unintelligibility obviously results. So to clearly and concisely summate, one must conclude that since we can venture backwards into the blackness of history, the words changing in their meaning, spelling and pronunciation as we go, until the word forms are lost completely like the fading of ink over time, any claims by anyone of absolute definitions, spellings or pronunciations for any words in any language based on anything other than common consensus among those who claim to speak, read and write the language in question at the time in question is certainly suspect. Don't you agree?

"In August Rudyard's listlessness called for another series of major and very unpleasant medical examinations.. He later joked ... 'If this is what Oscar Wilde went to prison for, he ought to have got the Victoria Cross.'", Andrew Lycett, "Rudyard Kipling" (!!)

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Bill Bonde ``This is the Battle of Epping Forest '':

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RE: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the English language? page 7

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